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Why I didn’t support Adverlets

Well, just now as I took out my old photos in the previous post, it stirred a bit of my emotions. Then, I happened to read the story on cnet about Advertlets. And you may asked how are they connected? Well, most of you probably had noticed that I am a 100% supporter of ‘the other company’, i.e. nuffnang .

You know why? Because long before I know nuffnang, Advertlets approached me with this email. It is from Josh Lim, dated 28th February 2007. At that time, none of us know about the launching of any ads companies, do we?

Hi Lilian,

I read with interest, your posting:

http://chanlilian.net/2005/05/01/lets-celebrate-death-anniversary/

Sorry to hear about your son, but I am glad he is in a better place.

So, when someone brought up the part of me that I don’t often mentioned (i.e. my deceased son), I naturally felt touched.

Then, the email went on about :

I am Josh, from Josh Lim & Associates. Manhattan Fish Market is my client (check out www.manhattanfishmarket.com)
On behalf of my client, I would like to ask if you would be interested in advertising The Manhattan Fish Market in the following formats:

– Sidebar (165 pixel x 239 pixel height, around the placing where your textlinkads banner is)
– Sponsored Post (up to you, inclusive of photos and a short writeup)

Would a rate between RM300-RM500 a month be okay with you for the sidebar advert, (for 3 months, total RM900/RM1500)
and a one time fee of RM300-RM500 for the sponsored post? As for the sponsored post, we can sponsor the cost of the meal as well (below RM200)

So, I agreed and even declined the free meal vouchers as I told Josh that I will welcome the RM200 but prefer to give it to my blog readers as I can afford to eat at my own cost.

Much later, I realised that I had been taken for a ride with the MFM ads. Well, I don’t take it too kindly because Josh had brought up my deceased son as the opening topic. So, yeah, I am sore that he asked for my quotation as a benchmark for all the local bloggers ads price.

But that’s not the only reason. Once, Josh dropped a comment on my other blog that I can win RM50 if I do a review of his company. As all of you know, I have very big head and I don’t take it kindly if people approached me that way. I can do anything for free if I like it. But to insult me by dangling a RM50 carrot, well, that’s just lame. I had done a lot of publicity for nuffnang simply because I know we bloggers have the potential to earn some money if we back up the company that is our middleman.

Now that the lion has spoken

However, disquiet has erupted among bloggers in Malaysia in that In-Tech writer Christy Lee SW, who contributed the story Blogging and Big Bucks, is now being vilified for her observation on the two blog ad aggregators, and the blog ad potentials in general.

What makes it interesting is that there are bloggers taking sides in support of the aggregator of their choice.

I think I shall openly take sides. I am taking the side of the much gentleman taukehs because I do not like to sit on fences. Frankly speaking, I do not care if I earn less because I rather be on the side of the much more known bloggers. You can say it is the mob mentality. But just take a look and you know which sides have better known bloggers. However, on a serious note, I dislike people digging up my son as a conversation topic unless they really mean it.

Glad I also finally blurted this out. Are you enlightened with it?




48 Responses to “Why I didn’t support Adverlets”

  1. OMG! How rude to use that as a conversation piece?! I mean, if you have something to propose, just say it! Why used something so personal to get to what you want?! I’d be angry too.

  2. Not that neutrality is a bad thing but many are in the state delusion and has been distorted the facts. But having a blogger who has a greater reach like you to spill this out, it clears some air around. 🙂

  3. Knew about Josh Lim as a mere designer in Arachnid years ago. While he did create that interactive agency’s logo, that’s pretty all they kept that’s remotely good about him.

    In other words, not many people like him much due to his arrogance and [loads of other not-so-nice adjectives].

    I am glad you took nuffnang’s side … i wouldn’t sell out for more buck for an asshole either.

  4. oh my God…
    i don’t expect Advertlets will “drag” you untill this kind of level.
    all this time, i support the Advertlets with full of my heart, but now I’m feel so “strange” about it.

    Josh Lim, please explain…………

  5. To be honest…I also didn’t like the way Josh approached many ppl during the Blogger’s Meet (KL). But..still I put it up to see how it goes. Till today, I’ve earned ZERO cents..while I might not be earning much on Nuffnang..I am still earning something. I’m not soo haddup for money…

    hahah..I’ve always wondered why u never supported them…thanks for sharing.

  6. Josh Lim is a bloody dried up fishy piece of slime that I would not touch with a 10 feet pole! Anyone remembers the ‘Guiness’ Who is Adam King Campaign’ that got him famous or rather infamous in the first place? Eventhough his motives were not entirely baseless, who is he to conjecture such hulabaloo and create such arbitry convictions? HEll damn! I was freelancing at that time, and because of him, the company being sub-contracted that hired me got into trouble, thus causing me -the small anchovy at the end of the chain- my pay. Two weeks of sleepless night, being pumped up by stimulants for ABSOLUTELY nothing! He will convince you obstensibly with his puritanistic claims and convince you obstensibly but in the end, everything he does is just for his own selfish gains. Be wary of that horrendous guy.

  7. mott – Wuah, really? I have kept the ‘elegant silence’ *slaps self* because I feel it is not nice to taruh a new company. After all, they have staffs and bloggers depending on them. But after I read Jeff’s post and the links provided by him, I find it rather petty for him to bitch with a girl about the article. It is not easy to get on the paper and yet, he spoilt it to diss a reporter openly like that. That is just too unprofessional.

    weirdoux – Josh has charm, you must have bitten on that. LOL. But funny thing is eventhough I did not sign up with them, they offer me ads. I turned it down, of course. Because the product is against my principle of promoting breastfeeding. So, WTF, even I who is not an Advertlets kaki is offered an ad spot, so what crumbs are left for the smallish bloggers, right? Moreover, I memang lansi, I won’t accept a few ringgit for blogging. USD is diff because it is a long, proven, working module.

    The E.W. – Hehehe, you said it. I only listen, ok? ROTFLMAO

    freethinker – And those who support nuffnang are labelled as mindless partisans by them. I had to Google what partisan means. LOL. Now I am a mindless partisan. Nice name!

    cc – Yeah, if it is business, say it. If it is more friendly, make it known but dun mix one to get the other (digging for my rate). Right?

  8. AbFab in Paris – Ahh…I have been to Paris before too. It was a lovely place. And hehehe, I listen only, ok?

  9. Yes, I know. I saw the lovely pictures that you took in Paris. It’s a great thing you brought this up, since your blogs garner so much traffic (see, even people oversea like me are addicted), many people will be aware of him/’it’. Have a great weekend and keep them delicious stories coming.

  10. Hi All,

    Before being misperceived with being insensitive or rude, or “not meaning it”…

    I don’t really know how it’s possible to talk about that post without mentioning the reason why you were there. I thought it was quite a positive way to commemorate his death, and it beared mention, don’t you think?

    Wouldn’t it have been insensitive to not mention it when its the focus of the post? To overlook it would be just as insulting, no? I have respect for the dead, having had witnessed some unfortunate events even earlier this year. Some feel that to dismiss one’s death or tip toe around it is tantamount to not acknowledging that they were a living, breathing human being at some point.

    Before you judge – what would you have done?

    And before you think this was a one off “I want to squeeze info from you” kind of thing – From our other e-mails, which I hope will remain private, I hope that you understand I was sincere in marketing to you. If you remember, I also sent you an e-mail on another possible marketing campaign for a baby product for mothers. You declined, citing personal views, so I assumed as a “no” and its natural to assume that you weren’t too keen on working together so, I haven’t contacted you since with new campaigns since then.

    I don’t know what you mean by being “taken for a ride”, but rest assured that our ad campaigns are long term and in phases. As for the review, well, please understand it is a mere token fee for people to take a little bit of time to tell us what they think of our service.

    Just so everyone knows:

    While most people hear bits and pieces about me (for example – I wasn’t full time in that interactive agency, and the logo was about all I did, together with some contract work), or that I am arrogant – please evaluate whether it was a first hand experience, or hearsay? And well, the full story. I’ve been around a while, and statistically its possible to make more mistakes over a long period of time. And there’s a lot more to be unfairly judged by.

    It’s easier to paint pictures of people with the blackest shades possible, but a truer picture always has shades of grey to give depth and contrast. Or even white.

    Some don’t know the prior relationship & conflict (some as far as 4 years back) I had with some of the people involved in this debacle, and well its not fair for me to mention it here or publicly. (No, its not with the person behind this blog). But if you believe its fair to hear my point of view on this, talk to me. My e-mail, or MSN: joshua_lim@hotmail.com.

    Don’t mistake my competitiveness for arrogance, or my apology for an excuse. Or my resolve for inflexibility. The more astute will notice that there are actions and changes to back these words, visible online. And no one’s ever too big to say sorry. So here it is. I apologize if you have felt offended.

  11. well.. its business to him.. anything that starts a conversation goes.. be it appropriate or not..

  12. this is the second time i hear about advertlets. first in joyce blog. second here. i’m starting to think that the company is not as professional as nuffnang. i haven’t hear timothy tiah or anyone going around and kau pek kau boh when they initially set up their company…

    T_T this is business.. suck it up or juz chap lap la.. sigh.. if you don’t want competitors be the government then *grins* lol

  13. I’ve never heard of Advertlets. To be honest, I’ve just learned what nuffnang was. I used to think it was just a mere cool photo organizer displaying the visitors’ image. 🙂

    Yes, there’s always something new to learn at your blog. 🙂

  14. “As for the review, well, please understand it is a mere token fee for people to take a little bit of time to tell us what they think of our service.” — Josh

    Does that refer to review, honest review, positive review , negative review or review that josh is happy about ?

    After reading that, have I change my perception ? Yada Yada Yada… I prefer to see action than pure talk..

  15. 5xmom, u got supply kuaci or not this time? 😛 i’m just gonna watch.

  16. the war is over but the battle is just begin….

  17. Lilian of course i said it. Not about to retract the words I used, either. People did call him an asshole … just merely making a reference.

    🙂

  18. Good thing you mentioned Advertlets in this post. I just signed up with them not long after i moved house. But their system require this and that, so mafan! Now, thinking of taking it out of my blog liao. Now that you mention them, I won’t hesitate to take it down and flood my blog with Nuffnang instead. Hahahah!!!!! I sapot you auntie!

  19. Oh, btw, done ur tag! 😀

  20. One more thing, one more thing! I just read through ‘some blogs’:

    “Josh Lim says:
    and we didn’t launch a month after them
    it was 8 days!
    we launched on 9th of March
    they launched…about 8 days before in Feb. ”

    His maths damn powder hor, 8 days before 9th of March is February??? 0.o!!!

    I’m going to take it down from my blog right away!

  21. I am not surprised. Step 1: Capture thy heart. Step 2: Business. I’ve had my share of that as well. Of course, it wasn’t for business — I’m just a small fry.

  22. dear aunty lilian,

    i respect you as blogger, something i’m still in denial to be called for. but pls be rational. isn’t normal for someone to show his condolence? sometimes i wonder who’s taking side.

    a day after i wrote a negative review on nuffnang, they sent me an ad proposal immediately (hang on, i thought we have to wait for a month before they make the call for ad?) but with the following clause:

    “If you have a Skyscraper Ad Unit, please also ensure that it is placed high up the sidebar or the advertiser may choose the withdraw the ad.

    which means, i have to top it above Adverlets. WHY SO? i’ll leave it for you all to ponder.

    aunty, i’m not here to start a blog war. in fact, i’ve never ever comment on sensitive issue like this. i’m just here to let u know that everyone has their own perception. and your perception towards josh’s proposal is indeed a major misunderstanding. this is my 2 cents n that’s all i have to say. and I do not deny, josh is a personal friend of mine.

    i would appreciate if no one makes any personal attack towards my comment, especially fans of 5xmom. flaming is unethical, and if anyone decides to do so, all i can offer is a nice cup of shut the f*ck up.

    thank you.

  23. wow … before both advertisers going as big as google-yahoo, the war already started … how interesting …

    i’ve not sign for either of them (nuffnang or advertlets) at this particular moment … from what i can conclude (i might be wrong, so please don’t sue me) after my correspondence with them :

    – nuffnang – a soft management with a rather “avoid problem if possible” approach … hence should you blog something which might offend “top officials”, expect nuffnang to submit to the authorities without much obstacles … so if you’re someone who writes materials the jeffooi way but preferred to remains as anonymous, you better think twice, not that the authorities cannot track you down with the current technology … the cons – of course you can’t expect a good deal from them since they’re not a good negotiator with the advertisers at the first place …

    – advertlets – an aggresive management of which sales-figure is of paramount important … so an aggresive salesman more often would shows “Arrogant” attitude to most of outsiders (i can’t comment whether this characteristic is attached to josh personally) … if they can deliver what they promised, then you can be sure your confidentiality is sealed, not to mentioned they might have backup servers in case of emergency … unless they’re conman, you can expect good returns from their ads because they would negotiate the best deal for you … also due to “face” issue, they need to justify why theirs is better than the competitor (using monetary as the carrot) … cons – of course they might over-promise you since they’re an aggresive animal …

    in any market, it’s always good to have COMPETITION … without competition you can expect a single player monopolizing the market and soon you would be dealing with another arrogant provider (i’m sure noone can guarantee that nuffnang will still be the same nice-guy should the revenue reach a handsome level) … just look at how arrogant google is now … don’t you wish there’s another astro-like provider, tenaga-like provider, streamyx-like provider and so on?

    so, if you’re business-minded, take away the personal characteristic of the person in charge … if you’re looking to develop a friendship kind of partnership and wish to deal with someone with “soft” touch, then it’s more into personal-relationship rather than pure business engagement …

    above are just my personal opinions …. again, please don’t sue me …

    cheers …

  24. YC – If you have not come with a mindset and get all defensive, you will have noted:

    1) I never say anything about Josh but how bad I feel over the issue. I don’t need condolences, I am not in mourning. Get your facts right before you try to bring back the issue of death again. I even made it clear that whatever the commentors expressed , I heard it but I never encouraged it. They themselves also responded that yeah, it is purely their own opinions.

    2) None of the commentors here have been as rude as you to tell others to shut the fuck up. You do not have to use the * over here. If I allow a comment to pass through, it is because I give them a chance. Otherwise, it is to the thrash bin. So, who are you to come and tell them to shut the fuck up? This ain’t your blog, you know? And no, my friends (rather than fans) do not need to flame you because I just did.

    So, ladies and gentlemen, I present to you what so many of the bloggers have been talking about. You be the judge.

    Stocktube – Obviously, there is something a lot of people are not aware of. That is how the Malaysian blogsphere works. That my friend, needs time to study. Since you are so wary, then, good luck with writing paid posts for you.

    ehon – Faster bring popcorn, kuaci, buffalo wings…..

    Cincau Hangus – This time you are selling drinks or not? Mana lu pigi? Bisnis bagui wei. Cepat!

  25. I noticed a very funny trend. The battle of the 2, usually initiated by the A.J ( not KJ ) , those who are against the A.J , MOST of the time are bloggers who put their identity up while those against the other one… is either friends ( who is kind enough to ask ppl shut up, if you not ready to debate intellectually, please don’t use kiddy method ) OR ppl in Anonymous mode …

    Hmm…

  26. freethinker – Yeah, I just came back from the land call ‘Anonymous’ where every comment comes from a person name Anonymous. Hehehe.

  27. I wanna start by saying I have NOTHING against these 2 ad companies. I love and support all innovative Malaysian start ups. I’ve worked for online/IT/PC based companies for the last 8 years, never for a company that does traditional trades.

    I’ve signed up and spent time to review Advertlets 2 days ago, Why? because they know how to email or call back. Sometimes a simple “Sorry, no interested is fine”.

    5xmom knows how to reply email…see I’m spend time at her blog. K.Sia also got reply. Liewcf also got reply. Jamaican boxing dudes shud learn to reply.

  28. GO NUFFNANG!!!

  29. hey 5xmom…

    just do wat you do best in this blog:D that is blog!! ignore all this politics.. God bless

  30. lilian: Yeah, I just came back from the land call ‘Anonymous’ where every comment comes from a person name Anonymous. Hehehe.

    me: i called this people as a “coward”. anybody agree with me?

  31. Who is Josh Lim lah???!!! I think I am more femes. Blek!

  32. @YC
    The “clause” requested you to “ensure that it (Nuffnang banner) is placed high up the sidebar or the advertiser may choose the withdraw the ad”.

    1. No where in that “clause” requested you to place the Nuffnang banner ABOVE the Advertlets banner.

    2. It wasn’t a threat but just an instruction to ensure that you do not place it too low in the sidebar. I am sure Advertlets has the same policy as well, don’t they?

    On an unrelated note:
    1. You spelled Advertlets wrongly.
    2. You signed off as http://blackjettas.blogspot.com/ instead of http://blackjetta.blogspot.com/. The former leads to a blog that has “JOSH” as the owner.

    @StockTube
    I don’t think it is right for you to:

    1. scare bloggers with the threat that “should you blog something which might offend “top officials”, expect nuffnang to submit to the authorities without much obstacles”.

    2. say that Nuffnang is “not a good negotiator with the advertisers”.

    … even if you add that “above are just my personal opinions …. again, please don’t sue me …”.

    Firstly, based on what do you claim that if such a scenario happens, Nuffnang will but Advertlets won’t? Secondly, based on what do you claim that Nuffnang is not a good negotiator with the advertisers? You should be more careful with what you write even if they are just “personal opinions”.

  33. terence – You just asked the most intelligent question. That’s why you are my #1 fansee.

  34. tenthofmarch – Actually, a lot of us Malaysians are fond of being wary of the unknown, from IRD to Government to Google to many things. I think we are so tuned to that. Hehehe. Me, I like to tread on the edge.

    As for YC’s comment, I think one cannot reason well when emotions are involved, so it is futile to argue with people like them.

    Dan – You don’t need to go to Kuching, come back to Penang and round and round the bushes. You not happy nuffnang never reply your emails? Then, say it loud lor. They have a blog and Tim has a blog, why not just drop a comment. As far as I know, they do respond very fast. Unless there is some miscommunication or somehting.

    weirdoux – Yeah, anon doesn’t carry weight, unless anon has a blog that reflects their thoughts, right?

    whojen – Tks

    Dr. Tan – Hahaha.

  35. sowee sowee.. i was strolling around checking got people or not. last i check only 2-3.. now 30+..

    *brings a trailer with sofas, huge projection screen with live coverage of people shouting here and there and lots of food together with a fully equiped bar and 3 bartenders for all your bartending needs*

    hope i’m not too late.. 😛

  36. TenthOfMarch,

    1) i’m not trying to scare bloggers … it’s not a threat … i’ve corresponded with nuffnang and when i brought up the issue, i didn’t receive any favorable reply … i can’t blame them since they’re into business and not into publisher’s privacy protection … you should know better the type of independence of opinion in malaysia …

    2) what i meant was comparable to advertlets who seems to be aggresive, nuffnang would have not be able to strike a better pricing … if you’re a businessman before you should know what i mean … if you’re not, then forget about it …

    when a person said it’s “personal” opinion, he/she meant that’s how he/she thinks … if it’s not personal opinion, then he/she will just be a copycat and just “aye” or “nay” to whatever the majority says … oh yeah, i’m really scare – whoever has been staying in a country called malaysia should have learn the art of “be real careful” of what you say … so please don’t lecture me on how i should be careful with what i say …

    you’ve your own opinion … so do i … and if majority of the comments here are for nuffnang or vice versa, so be it … i don’t have to agree and be a rubber-stamp …

    this is just a comments section …. don’t take things personally …

    cheers …

  37. cincau – Aisay, almost over. But bring some smoke machine and firecrackers and see can start again or not. LOL.

  38. aiya aunty.. next time tell me earlier mar.. at least i can set up nice nice for you.. hire people for u also… lol.. 😛

  39. Pricing ? Hmmmm, are we talking about main stream media (MSM) ads buy over?
    ROFL.

    I agree with 5xmom. If the blogger like something, we will do it for FREE(always).

  40. Lilian: I’m totally disspointed to tell you the truth. I have emailed both parties with the same proposal on how I can participate as a publisher. I got a phone call from Advertlets the next day, no reply from boxing dudes. And its passed one week now.

    Im aware the boxing dudes have a blog but how to leave a proposal as a comment? Not appropriate.

    You also mentioned the personal blog. Its no fun commenting there after you seeing your first comment got deleted.

    So I used the webform but never got a reply but you may be right. Prolly due to some misscommunications or something.

    The reason I went to kuching and back to penang is to tell you… all the positive experience I have had with bloggers. In fact, since I started blogging, boxing dudes are the only people that never reply my email. ALL the rest did.

    Since you close with the boss, maybe you can ask him what’s up? Mail server problem izzit?

  41. Maybe should get the IRB to check whether blog advertising income is taxable. Then sure no more debating and arguing.

    Semua tak nak advertise. Yeah hoo!

  42. StockTube does has a point in theoretical terms on soft and aggressive management. However…. is that the EXACT scenario with both NN and A is not in the eyes of third party of us to absolutely evaluate and deduce that each of that fall into that particularly category.

    However one crucial point is missed : the support of the bloggers.

    No matter how aggressive one become and when the attitude and morale crosses the limit, I’m sure not all bloggers here are just money suckers, some have principle…

    That is one factor you need to taken consideration.

  43. Eiyer.. if kena tax.. think of the paper works fer juz a few extra bucks (for small kentangs) sure damn turn off de. haha

  44. i went for nuffnang becos they are the first who gave me an add. while i have not really cashed out anything from them, i think they have better PR. now tim… dont get all kembang ok?

    i think as bloggers, we should just stay away from this fued between nuffnang and advertlets…

  45. Jus a lil bit of fact : Josh Lim – freelanced a couple of projects for Arachnid. That’s it.

  46. What a war here..Anyway I started off with Nuffnang first and slowly added Adverlets to my blog..both of these ads network are ok for me so far. Just waiting for my cheque..

  47. adverlets.com web site expired since 3rd january 08, until today still didnt renew, what a shame…
    it also made blogs to redirect to others domain where teh blog has adverlets ads..

  48. sigh