Chey…the Lim Guan Eng vs Koh Tsu Koon debate notes
Posted on August 20th, 2008 by Lilian • Filed under: politics
I will write these in parts like what was debated.
Lim Guan Eng said the land scams in Penang are serious scandals which cause the Penang State Government to lose RM150 million and indirectly cause RM1.25 Billion losses. This will be a threat yadda yadda yadda.
So, Lim Guan Eng said the purpose of the debate is to ask these three questions :
1) How many cases are there?
2) Who,how, why etc are responsible
3) How to find more and how to prevent them from happening in future.
The previous State Government has refused to help or discuss with the current Government and it is like a time bomb, ready to explode further.
Five cases were mentioned :
1) PSC scandal
2) Premium discount
3) RM40M which was due to wrong land title (private land taken as Government and then, compensate back)
4) RM84 million which are over payment
5) PGCC under Abad Naluri/Patrick Lim
Lim Guan Eng said Hilmi Yahya who is still an UMNO ADun admitted to these mistakes.
Koh Tsu Koon shot back that Lim Guan Eng who is now a Chief Minister is still acting like an opposition member. Masih belagak macam pembangkang. ktk is annoyed because LGE said “Kerajaan di bawah UMNO” so he pointed that it is “kerajaan Barisan Nasional”. Petty point #1.
KTK explained that the RM40 Million was a mistake committed 40 years ago in the 1960s where they did registered the land wrongly.
KTK said LGE’s intention has political motives and LGE shouldn’t heboh (make a big issue) but instead challenge this in court.
QUESTION : Is this not a witchhunt?
KTK reply – Initially, they respected the Penang voters’ vote. At first LGE did not ask to see ktk and suddenly Pakatan Rakyat played up the issue as scandals and scams. ktk said LGE has repeated the land scams for 30 times in 5 months. Petty #2 (wuah, so free to count ah?)
KTK said PR is doing excessive politicking to ‘jatuh maruah and keyakinan” of the previous Government. (my retort was , Hoi, jatuh apa maruah, lu sudah kalah lah, ahpek oi)
KTK said the RM84 million land deal is a difference in evaluation prices in the last five years.
Lim Guan Eng reply to the question on witchhunt.
LGE said they adopt the CAT system, competency, accountabiblity and transparency in the administration of the Penang Govt. So, they won’t hide the cases of corruption from the rakyat. He retorted that if there is no new state gov. all these cases will still be hidden and no one knows. LGE said he is disappointed with KTK for trying to cover and even until now, still trying to hide.
He asked, “Ini angkara siapa?” Who fault is it? Why no action taken. All the technical department did not approve but why give to one individual (sorry I am very blur on this and need to search for more details)
LGE said these are just five cases and he is worried there may be more. He needs to know these losses so that they can carry out (allocate money) for welfare and social development.
*** pause for Olympic – 200m, new world record, the Jamaican again***
Aziz Rahman (guy picked by ktk) asked LGE
“You keep repeating in the media about the land scandals. Who are you blaming? Have you made a police report?”
LGE – It is a fact. I am not blaming. Fact is the state is losing money. The scandal happened during the BN Government (then, he gave perli at look at KTK as KTK was pissed when earlier LGE said UMNO Gov). So BN must be responsible.
Then LGE said, the money could be used to eradicate hard core poverty problems if they have these money.
LGE insisted he is not making private accusations.
Wan Hamidi (LGE man) asked KTK
“Is KTK denying all these?”
KTK said the 40m was done 60 years ago and BPR has investigated this twice but found no evidence of corruption.
Yaddayaddayadda bla bla bla. (5xmom says, Ok, I am biased in my notes, so sue me. I see the face, I no mood to listen liao, cannot meh?)
Wan Hamidi asked LGE
“Re the CAT, any guarantee the new Govt won’t fall into the same misappropriation of funds?”
LGE said “Mesti cakap serupa bikin”. He asked why the officer was not removed from office during KTK time.
LGE warned that the new State Govt. holds spot check. And now they have open tender policy on land deals. None of the current EXCO or ADun can apply for land.
And no duit kopi practice too.
Aziz Rahman asked KTK
“LGE claimed he got an empty office. Is this true?”
KTk said not true. Only the table is empty. The office measuring 2,000 sq ft has cabinets and there are thousands of files.
So, KTK said LGE is telling half truths. Tembak sebelum semak. Shoot before he looks. LGE sensationalizing issues.
(5xmom says….later on, LGE insist many files were removed. Maybe biasalah…BN Government memang lidah tak bertulang, KTK no remove, other removed leh?)
KTK question to LGE
Didn’t quite understand the question cos I am not very clear on the 40M deal. ktk asked about the 1.8 million compensation and did LGE take any action.
LGE said the file was not there. So he has to korek, korek, korek. LGE said he will fight the case and he worries how many files are missing.
LGE said when he was in the opposition, the opposition parties, without the resources can also dig out corruptions, what more now that he is in charge.
LGE humbly asked ktk to work together to stop this for the sake of the rakyat.
LGE to KTK
Why only warning given? Why give to individuals? If Hilmi admitted, why ktk still deny?
ktk perli that LGE does not understand his question and never answer him. ktk said the BPR has investigated the case and found no evidence. So, that’s why the officer was not removed. And now that LGE has been in office, what is he doing in this 5 mths.
Host ask same question to both.
What can be done to make these land deals more modern etc.
ktk replies – He claimed the CAT is nothing new, there is BCA (bersih cekap amanah) in 1982. He harped on his integrity. He asked LGE not to use the 2-3 cases and smear the previous government. If following the e-Tanah statistics, these cases are merely a small percentage. 99.9% efficient. He said LGE only likes to serang dan salahkan orang.
LGE shakes head that if only few cases already caused so much losses to the State Government, he wonders what is the real situation. He said ‘jangan sembunyi kat rumah’. He said he must know to close the loopholes.
He said the Bersih Cekap Amanah is akin to menanam tebu di bibir (sweet talking). Morgan Stanley reported a loss of USD100M in corruption.
Closing : LGE
LGE said actually, there is no need for debate, he is not going to swallow ktk so they could have met elsewhere. If ktk doesn’t want to go to his office, he can go to ktk house. But ktk refused and he is disappointed. NOw, after debate, LGE is still disappointed. Why KTK need to cover somemore?
LGE said “Don’t the previous Government dare to say they are not corrupted. If they are not corrupted, they won’t tumbang (fall) in the last election.”
LGE said if the Government in the past 50 years have not committed all these, they could have eradicated hard core poor problems. But they did nothing. Under the new State Government, LGE said will do it in ONE year.
ktk said it is not he refuse but he scared LGE twisted his words in private. So TV debate more transparent.
Petty point coming – ktk said LGE previously does not want to move into the official residence for the CM because it costs RM300K to repair. But then, he moved in now because it costs only RM30K. He asked if LGE take action against whoever gave him the false numbers. Petty lah, ktk.
ktk excuse for not revealing the cases is because of the court cases. He perli with loyar buruk and then, perli LGE as akauntan buruk. The 84m is not a case but accountant calculate the difference and so it is so high. There is no loss at all.
Sekian. Terima kasih. Now, who wants to hire The 5xmom? Malaysiakini has the coverage and called it Lively Debate between Lim Guan Eng and Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon. I personally don’t find it lively though.