Chey…the Lim Guan Eng vs Koh Tsu Koon debate notes

I will write these in parts like what was debated.

Lim Guan Eng said the land scams in Penang are serious scandals which cause the Penang State Government to lose RM150 million and indirectly cause RM1.25 Billion losses. This will be a threat yadda yadda yadda.

So, Lim Guan Eng said the purpose of the debate is to ask these three questions :

1) How many cases are there?
2) Who,how, why etc are responsible
3) How to find more and how to prevent them from happening in future.

The previous State Government has refused to help or discuss with the current Government and it is like a time bomb, ready to explode further.

Five cases were mentioned :

1) PSC scandal
2) Premium discount
3) RM40M which was due to wrong land title (private land taken as Government and then, compensate back)
4) RM84 million which are over payment
5) PGCC under Abad Naluri/Patrick Lim

Lim Guan Eng said Hilmi Yahya who is still an UMNO ADun admitted to these mistakes.

Koh Tsu Koon shot back that Lim Guan Eng who is now a Chief Minister is still acting like an opposition member. Masih belagak macam pembangkang. ktk is annoyed because LGE said “Kerajaan di bawah UMNO” so he pointed that it is “kerajaan Barisan Nasional”. Petty point #1.

KTK explained that the RM40 Million was a mistake committed 40 years ago in the 1960s where they did registered the land wrongly.

KTK said LGE’s intention has political motives and LGE shouldn’t heboh (make a big issue) but instead challenge this in court.

Host asked
QUESTION : Is this not a witchhunt?

KTK reply – Initially, they respected the Penang voters’ vote. At first LGE did not ask to see ktk and suddenly Pakatan Rakyat played up the issue as scandals and scams. ktk said LGE has repeated the land scams for 30 times in 5 months. Petty #2 (wuah, so free to count ah?)

KTK said PR is doing excessive politicking to ‘jatuh maruah and keyakinan” of the previous Government. (my retort was , Hoi, jatuh apa maruah, lu sudah kalah lah, ahpek oi)

KTK said the RM84 million land deal is a difference in evaluation prices in the last five years.

Lim Guan Eng reply to the question on witchhunt.

LGE said they adopt the CAT system, competency, accountabiblity and transparency in the administration of the Penang Govt. So, they won’t hide the cases of corruption from the rakyat. He retorted that if there is no new state gov. all these cases will still be hidden and no one knows. LGE said he is disappointed with KTK for trying to cover and even until now, still trying to hide.

He asked, “Ini angkara siapa?” Who fault is it? Why no action taken. All the technical department did not approve but why give to one individual (sorry I am very blur on this and need to search for more details)

LGE said these are just five cases and he is worried there may be more. He needs to know these losses so that they can carry out (allocate money) for welfare and social development.

*** pause for Olympic – 200m, new world record, the Jamaican again***


Aziz Rahman (guy picked by ktk) asked LGE

“You keep repeating in the media about the land scandals. Who are you blaming? Have you made a police report?”

LGE – It is a fact. I am not blaming. Fact is the state is losing money. The scandal happened during the BN Government (then, he gave perli at look at KTK as KTK was pissed when earlier LGE said UMNO Gov). So BN must be responsible.

Then LGE said, the money could be used to eradicate hard core poverty problems if they have these money.

LGE insisted he is not making private accusations.


Wan Hamidi (LGE man) asked KTK

“Is KTK denying all these?”

KTK said the 40m was done 60 years ago and BPR has investigated this twice but found no evidence of corruption.
Yaddayaddayadda bla bla bla. (5xmom says, Ok, I am biased in my notes, so sue me. I see the face, I no mood to listen liao, cannot meh?)


Wan Hamidi asked LGE

“Re the CAT, any guarantee the new Govt won’t fall into the same misappropriation of funds?”

LGE said “Mesti cakap serupa bikin”. He asked why the officer was not removed from office during KTK time.

LGE warned that the new State Govt. holds spot check. And now they have open tender policy on land deals. None of the current EXCO or ADun can apply for land.

And no duit kopi practice too.


Aziz Rahman asked KTK

“LGE claimed he got an empty office. Is this true?”

KTk said not true. Only the table is empty. The office measuring 2,000 sq ft has cabinets and there are thousands of files.

So, KTK said LGE is telling half truths. Tembak sebelum semak. Shoot before he looks. LGE sensationalizing issues.

(5xmom says….later on, LGE insist many files were removed. Maybe biasalah…BN Government memang lidah tak bertulang, KTK no remove, other removed leh?)

KTK question to LGE

Didn’t quite understand the question cos I am not very clear on the 40M deal. ktk asked about the 1.8 million compensation and did LGE take any action.

LGE said the file was not there. So he has to korek, korek, korek. LGE said he will fight the case and he worries how many files are missing.

LGE said when he was in the opposition, the opposition parties, without the resources can also dig out corruptions, what more now that he is in charge.

LGE humbly asked ktk to work together to stop this for the sake of the rakyat.



Why only warning given? Why give to individuals? If Hilmi admitted, why ktk still deny?

ktk perli that LGE does not understand his question and never answer him. ktk said the BPR has investigated the case and found no evidence. So, that’s why the officer was not removed. And now that LGE has been in office, what is he doing in this 5 mths.


Host ask same question to both.

What can be done to make these land deals more modern etc.

ktk replies – He claimed the CAT is nothing new, there is BCA (bersih cekap amanah) in 1982. He harped on his integrity. He asked LGE not to use the 2-3 cases and smear the previous government. If following the e-Tanah statistics, these cases are merely a small percentage. 99.9% efficient. He said LGE only likes to serang dan salahkan orang.


LGE shakes head that if only few cases already caused so much losses to the State Government, he wonders what is the real situation. He said ‘jangan sembunyi kat rumah’. He said he must know to close the loopholes.

He said the Bersih Cekap Amanah is akin to menanam tebu di bibir (sweet talking). Morgan Stanley reported a loss of USD100M in corruption.


Closing : LGE

LGE said actually, there is no need for debate, he is not going to swallow ktk so they could have met elsewhere. If ktk doesn’t want to go to his office, he can go to ktk house. But ktk refused and he is disappointed. NOw, after debate, LGE is still disappointed. Why KTK need to cover somemore?

LGE said “Don’t the previous Government dare to say they are not corrupted. If they are not corrupted, they won’t tumbang (fall) in the last election.”

LGE said if the Government in the past 50 years have not committed all these, they could have eradicated hard core poor problems. But they did nothing. Under the new State Government, LGE said will do it in ONE year.


ktk said it is not he refuse but he scared LGE twisted his words in private. So TV debate more transparent.

Petty point coming – ktk said LGE previously does not want to move into the official residence for the CM because it costs RM300K to repair. But then, he moved in now because it costs only RM30K. He asked if LGE take action against whoever gave him the false numbers. Petty lah, ktk.

ktk excuse for not revealing the cases is because of the court cases. He perli with loyar buruk and then, perli LGE as akauntan buruk. The 84m is not a case but accountant calculate the difference and so it is so high. There is no loss at all.

Sekian. Terima kasih. Now, who wants to hire The 5xmom? Malaysiakini has the coverage and called it Lively Debate between Lim Guan Eng and Tan Sri Dr Koh Tsu Koon. I personally don’t find it lively though.

32 thoughts on “Chey…the Lim Guan Eng vs Koh Tsu Koon debate notes

  1. Aiyo.. your LGE lost la…. not smart of him. When KTK already gave satisfactory explaination that the quarry issue was a mistake made 40 yrs ago, LGE should have pushed ahead with PGCC which is definitely fully done during KTK’s time.

  2. I think LGE too many things to do now la…. P44, DAP elections, debate and not forgeting being a CM and MP… so not well prepared. Maybe he thought can easily beat KTK….

  3. If the quarry issue is from a mistake done 40 years ago, what other mistakes not uncovered yet? There maybe a room full of classified documents next to PG CM’s office on the 28th Flr of Komtar but are these documents complete?

    Before LGE’s disclosure of ‘half truths’, did the former ever disclose any ‘full truths’ or were they just politically-feel-good propaganda?

  4. Peoples – some of your comments may not appear immediately because I am going to a pajamas party. *roll eyes* To be chaperone. *foams in mouth*

  5. Eh… why KTK becomes KSK ah? 😛

    Someone really needs to hire you… did you do notes when watching? can remember one ah? 😮

  6. LKG spoke for all of is the same story every the land for rm1 and sell it next day to developer or estate planter for rm100..milliomare overnite..i fully agree the elected reps ,aduns or ybs orother vips should not be allowed or make calls to land offices..pat a visit to sarawak..most of the lands are political owners..
    I think LKG was cool and KTK was defensive and angry..emotional..

  7. I watched a little bit here and there. Not so sure who is the best speaker. But I watched LGE’s closing… superb… I like the part, “Don’t the previous Government dare to say they are not corrupted. If they are not corrupted, they won’t tumbang (fall) in the last election.” I clapped my hands and applaused so loudly! Yeah!!!

    Choonies last blog post..9880

  8. LGE is a lousy, LOUSY debater. But who cares…… long as he can run the govt better.

    Dude, if it was Anwar or even his old man, LKS debating, they would have shot KTK so full of holes he wouldn’t be able to retain water for a week.

    For instance: KTK said that the court case MIGHT be settled out of court for “only” RM1.8 million dollars.

    LGE response: waffle waffle some rubbish……..

    Proper response would be to ask KTK:
    a) This is MIGHT. The suit is for RM40 million. Unless KTK is God or Lingam can he be sure the amount won’t reach RM40million or thereabouts?
    b) EVEN if it is RM1.8 million SO BLEEPING WHAT? Thats still a HECK OF A LOT OF MONEY which most Malaysians can’t even dream of getting even after working their little fingers to the bone for 30 years, 6 days a week. IF KTK is a CEO in a private firm and 1 of his employees cost the company to lose RM 1.8 million (nvrmind 40 million!) WHAT does he do? Say “small problem, sweep under carpet”?

    Hell no. You know, and I know – sacked, and possible criminal case.

    So whatmore when it is PENANG PEOPLE’S TAXPAYER MONEY when it is lost?

    LGE should have STRAIGHT asked KTK – WAS MONEY LOST, AND IS THE SUM INVOLVING MILLIONS?!?! Don’t care whether its RM 40 million, 1.5 billion or “only” RM10 million.

    Don’t he think that SOMEONE ought to take the blame, EVEN if the total losses is only RM 10 million (or even RM 1.8 million)? Don’t he think Penang ratepayers is ENTITLED to that?

    Do you think he dare to say no?

  9. err…so…. what’s the outcome?

    ok, even a mistake was done ‘inadvertently’ 40 yrs ago… how come this was not revealed to the public when KTK was d CM?

    I wanna see the clip…!!

  10. heys 5xmom! its amazing how you can get all of it down into writing, translated, and on the same night the debate was aired sumore! wow la. haha

    thnx for doing it. i watched the beginning, but had to go do other things, so your post closed the loopholes, as you said. haha. let’s see what happens next. 😀

    oh yah, the sudden olympic update, funny. haha! 😀

  11. KSK = KTK + Koh Tsu Koon, I presume….

    Wah… this debate really reduces my level of respect t KTK from zero to negative la… proof of money squandering already surfaced, still got face to deny… now, what else can BN do other than condemning the righteous and hailing the corrupted? Send a cat to space, perhaps?? Or send the corrupted files to space??

    ** Lilian, in case this message again goes to your Junk, pls help retrieve… thx!

    David C.s last blog post..How Rude!

  12. great coverage! u sure did beat AgendaDaily (the event’s organizer) itself in putting up the transcript, although seems a bit bias (pre-judged).

  13. Lilian you watch this video and tell me you angry or not

    Am absolutely abhorred and disgusted by the politicisation of Malaysia and Chong Wei’s silver medal. Now like the silver medal has become BARISAN’S instead of MALAYSIAN’S.

    Bringing the silver medal to a political function. PTUI! MALU MALU MALU! SHAME LA!

    My respect for Chong Wei has now gone down. Malu la… Go and let yourself be used as political fodder.

  14. KTK said that the reason he cannot meet with YAB LGE in his house to discuss on the land scams is because he is afraid that it is not transparent.

    Well, KTK, you can always hold your open discussion in Pisa, Fort Cornwallis padang or even Han Chiang.

    Penangnites would welcome your open discussion with LGE in such a venue with a Han Chiang crowd rest assured. You will surely get our “support”.

    Next time, please come back to your hometown to hold your debate. We will “cheer” for you for your clean and outstanding 18 years service to Penangnites.

  15. Wuah, so many comments.

    I was away the moment I finished typing the above. Baru come back.

    To all the morons who asked who is KSK, tiu lah, like you all very clever like dat, see S and T also know Tsu that I mistaken as Shu. Phttuui….got nothing to say, no need to say lah.

  16. To all the comments about Lee Chong Wei, I can only say, “I told you so….” LCW already early early supported Ling Liong Sik’s son, so what else to say worr…

    To those who said LGE lousy debater, may you get 7 days of constipation. Muahahar….

    To those who said LGE is a good, please take a number and queue behind me, the #1 fansee. Hahahaha.

    To those who said KTK is good, I do agree that he is very clever in twisting things, prove how he twisted us for 18 years. He managed to control the topic till LGE lost the plot. But what LGE has is the real human integrity, the sincere desire to help the society and his really humble and straightforward style adminstration.

    And yes, my notes above are really biased because I was jotting down only what favours LGE. So sue me, hehehe. My post is still high on the search results so I win!

  17. Obnoxious 5xx Mom. Reading your postings and the comments is really entertaining. I am from sarawak and have been a fan of your blog for quite sometime. Re the debate – I must say that LGE was a bit disappointing. I was expecting him to really shoot KTK into pieces but the latter was too sly. As someone said here, he obviously had a lot of practice on twisting the facts. On the whole, your Chief Minister came across as someone who is very humble and who obviously just wanted the answers which KTK was just not minded to give. KTK, as expected, was defensive. And his assumed smugness and arrogance was a big turn-off. What is it about these BN people? LGE had to walk over to KTK to shake his hand after the debate while KTK just stayed put. I suppose that was already one step better than Ahmad S who actually backed off when DSAI walked over to shake his hand.

  18. It was pretty obvious that Tsu Koon was more prepared and he has showed many facts that Guan Eng is just making a big issue of previous government mistakes.

    Guan Eng simply fails to answer the question from Tsu Koon with regards to

    “Asked by Koh: There is no basis to your allegations on the RM40 million and the allegations that there was no action against the person who committed the mistake?”

    When a Chief Minister fails to answer a question and start diverting attention to something else, he is showing his incompetence and it might actually mean there was no basis in his accusation. If you have a basis or prove, why not say it out clearly, as this is a public debate.

    Guan Eng proceed with his “korek korek korek” speeches to sensationalise the issue, AND failing to answer the question. In a debate, that is 1 point lost to Tsu Koon. When we want an answer, please don’t divert away from the question and start sensationalising issues. In a public debate, this is where you are supposed to show out your credibility, I would not think Guan Eng managed to do that. His answers are too general.

    Overall, Tsu Koon won the debate.

  19. lokgp – You are talking to Lim Guan Eng #1 fansee here and I am going to say you are blinded one eye. Hahaha. Never mind lah, up to you how you want to see the whole situation, I blog this just for traffic only.

    Who cares if Koh Tsu Koon won the debate. Lim Guan Eng rules! Hip hip hurray!

  20. I wonder if LGE were to corner KTK on the PGCC issue like he did on the RM40m, how would KTK response, or try to avoid? Wasted the golden opportunity!

  21. Thanks for agreeing with me that Koh Tsu Koon won the debate.

    But, all these doesn’t matter, what matters now is how Penang will be in 4 years time under Lim Guan Eng’s rule.

  22. It was a good debate about the past government’s management of office and the new management’s passionate involvement. Was it not entertaining to hear the words “korek, korek, korek”? Where would that put us now and to what ends of benefit would it lead us to?

    We can all see Tuan LGE perform blistering media campaigns from his mighty seat in government until the coming GE. Would the new masters in power remain frozen in conduct as to pointing accusing fingers and continue the blame-others game or would he mend his ways and live up to the people’s expectations for the betterment of living standards in Penang?

    Now is the time after we have voted him into government. If he proudly likes to be called Tuan, he should then stop talking about Penang’s loss of opportunity and get off being so lazy. LGE and his dream team should not just talk about putting the people first before their pride and position and work on the problems.

    Know that Penang people are watching their daily antics. Because they don’t come from Penang, they should not think Penang people are so stupid to fall for the same act again and again. Employed people from Penang are worried about losing their jobs and business people fear going out of business.

    So LGE, we have seen a lot of you, heard enough times from you, and ready now to savour the rewards promised.

    We did not misunderstand you when we voted for you. And don’t you turn to say, we can’t do this or that because the Federal or BN government won’t help or had spoilt it all before we can do anything. If the ordinary people of Penang believed the previous government can deliver all which the people want, why then did they vote for you, Tuan?

    Enough of useless barking up the tree for personal political mileage and debates to entertain fools. Go and do real work, then show me the money, Tuan LGE.

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