I picked up from Malaysiakini, a news from AFP with the title ‘Herald defies gov’t ban on ‘Allah”.
The editor of the Herald newspaper, Father Lawrence Andrew said this week’s edition uses the banned word and that he intends to continue doing so until the courts rule on the issue next month.
I am a Catholic who buys the Catholic weekly, The Herald (for RM1) from my church. For those who haven’t read this weekly before, let me give you an idea what it contains. Basically, we have the English section, Bahasa Malaysia, Mandarin and Tamil section. In each section, there are world news, news from Vatican, weekly happenings in our churches around Malaysia including Sabah and Sarawak and some reflections. There are sections for youths, touching on modern day happenings like movie reviews, new album releases and section for kids with colouring pages and etc.
As Christians, we do not incite hate because our faith is centered on LOVE. Love in Christian term, is not the ‘I love you, you love me’ kind of love. Love is God. Love to us means being able to put others above of our own needs.
When the issue on the banned term Allah was blown into the media, I got the curiousity to find out exactly why Christians are using it. I asked for a copy of Bahasa Malaysia Bible or the Alkitab from my church priest. I even asked Father Fabian to bless it or rather, bless me so that I am enlightened enough to be able to judge sensibly. I want to see for myself how the Allah term is used.
I see that Allah is not used when we are talking about the Son of God, Jesus. In the Alkitab, Allah is used only when God is referred in the highest level. In Christianity, God to us come in three facets, or rather the same Almighty but at different times, they have different references. Let’s not go into the Holy Trinity concept or this post may explode into another debate.
As you all know, I have quite good command of Bahasa Malaysia and I do speak Bahasa Malaysia with a loghat Penang. So when I have the Alkitab, a lot of things suddenly make sense to me because when I read in Bahasa Malaysia, I immediately understand the meaning. I am a product of teaching BM in all subjects in school except Bahasa Inggeris.
Now, let’s fast forward to a conversation I had with a couple from Indonesia. They are Protestants from Indonesia. They look every bit Indonesian. Sometimes, I meet Indonesians who are Chinese and it is easier for me to relate Christianity to them. When I meet Indonesian who looks like Malay, I need a little bit of getting used to. I have that cautious feelings that I am really talking to a Christian.
While chit chatting, they were so surprised that the word Allah is banned in our publications here. They told me, in Indonesia, they have public holidays for Good Friday, Easter and Christmas. Indonesians are free to convert as they like. In their conversation, they used Allah too. They talked about their faith in Allah, and how they depended on Allah in their sickness. The husband is suffering from end stage cancer.
Being a Malaysian, I was rather confused and blur when I keep hearing the word Allah popping from their mouths eventhough I know they are Protestants. So, I realised, over here in Malaysia, it is all political. The term Allah has been made into a political tool for politicians to gain mileage. Since Hamik Kaynui comes into the scene, suddenly Allah becomes haram for us Christians.
Therefore, I pray that God will bless our politicians with wisdom.
And for those Catholics who wrote in to The Editor of The Herald to ask us to step back and give way, I hope they have the wisdom to know that it is not a simple matter. Now, they try to stop us from printing Allah in The Herald. What about the future? Are you going to allow humans to stop us from using the term Allah in the Alkitab too? Don’t we all know what was the last few sentences in Revelation? In particular, Wahyu 22:19
Jika seseorang mengurangkan kata-kata nubat di dalam kitab ini, Allah juga akan mengambil balik hak orang itu untuk makan buah pokok sumber kehidupan dan haknya untuk tinggal di kota suci itu, seperti yang digambarkan di dalam kitab ini.
The term Allah has been used in the translated High Malay Bible since the 1800s.
“Munshi Abdullah, the father of modern Malay literature, translated the Bible into Malay in 1852 and he also translated ‘God’ as ‘Allah’ so there is strong historical proof of what we have been using for centuries,” said Andrew.
In conclusion, it is all political. In particular, Malaysia ruling political party. This issue has nothing to do with the Divine. All faiths lead to only goodness and the same God comes to us in different form. That’s all.
AND NO ONE GETS TO COMMENT ANYMORE BECAUSE I SAID SO.
I’m not a Christian, not Muslim, therefore am giving a neutral point of view:
Instead of ‘Allah’, why not the word ‘Tuhan’ , yes, ‘Allah’ is also God in Arabic, but the article is in Bahasa Malaysia, not Bahasa Arab, therefore the right word is ‘Tuhan’
Can we change our Rukun Negara from KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA TUHAN to KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA ALLAH? If it is okay, then you have my support.
If the Herald intend to use the word ‘Allah’ instead of ‘Tuhan’, I suggest they go all the way by replacing the ‘god’ word to ‘Allah’ word in the english, tamil, mandarin edition.
If the article is in Bahasa Malaysia, then use the right language for the article. Like you said, it is all political and the Herald politicalize it. I’m neutral, don’t get mad.
calvin – Are you suggesting that we change all the terms Allah in the Bahasa Malaysia Alkitab to Tuhan? Because what is mentioned in the Bible is taken and printed in The Herald at it is. Sort of like copy and paste. You can Google for Bible Bahasa Indonesia and see for yourself how Tuhan, Yesus, Roh Kudus and Allah is used. Simple as that. I guess you haven’t read a Bahasa Melayu AlKitab nor The Herald and hence, you do not know when Allah is used, when Yesus is used and when Tuhan is used. I supposed you also do not understand what Holy Trinity is to us Catholics. Therefore, I won’t fault you for giving this simple conclusion.
lilian
god – tuhan
Allah is spelled with the 1st letter to be capital letter.
We do not use capital letter for the 1st letter to spell god or tuhan. but we do to spell Jesus.
by the way, i know christians pray and always says ‘so help me god’ or ‘so help me father’… so why not just use tuhan and bapa?
so why must we mention god/the father of god – Allah? why not bapa jesus?
do u think hindhus call their god as Alah?
or maybe buddhist does that too?
i respect your faith in christianity
and i believe, its not hard for christians to use the malay version bible to teach without the name Allah.
it is an insult to Allah to call him the father of Jesus. Allah does not have kids or sons. He is not human.
so, please for the sake of all religion… let the word go
ps – please do not use indonesia as a benchmark. most of them follow religions based on needs. they marry a chinese, they become buddhist and so on… for the sake of the IC… not more..
peace!
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It’s all political. Plain and simple. Religion and race has always been used time and again by the ruling party to evoke “sensationalism” and “relevance” to their party’s existence. It’s a shame many Malaysians do not see this and instead, attacked the wrong parties (not political parties).
pablopabla´s last blog post..Ah Chong, Ali and Muthu
pablo – Biasaler…. :sidefrown: Wutudo……the politicians like KT and etc have influenced them more than the Word of God.
cabaikering – First, why not go built a time back and go back to the early centuries and ask those who translated the Bible to High Malay not to use the word Allah? Then, take a jet and fly around and see how other Muslim countries tolerate each other. Read Farish Noor article if you cannot afford to widen your horizon by jet. He tells us about the lives of Coptic Christians and Muslims in the Middle East. Go read Jeff Ooi’s blog on his culture shock in Dubai.
And then, maybe you should treat Indonesians like one of us, instead of putting them down like what you did. They did not convert from one religion to another for the sake of IC. They have faith in their God and their faith is strong enough to give them assurance that regardless of how each perceive their God, they belong to that faith. They are not insecure, blind and are certainly not fazed by how people call their God.
And you are very wrong about ‘using the Bible to teach’. The Bible is not a guidebook. It is the Word of God, or rather God Himself.
This is our belief :
Pada mulanja adalah Kalimat, dan Kalimat adalah sama Allah, dan Allah adalah Kalimat. (High Malay, 1821)
(kalimat, kalimah, firman all the same meaning)
As for whether it is an insult or not, yeah, we believe Jesus is the Son of God, born of Mary, made flesh because we Christians are sinful people and we need a human example in Jesus to show us the Way, the Life and the Truth.
Amen.
Ma’am, you shoul write about the Trinity and put it under “Faith”. Would want to know how people view the Godhead. I’ve been shot by Arabs not grasping the Trinity concept properly.
O:-) :devil: :cow2:
julian – It is a futile effort ‘cos no one wants to listen to our side of stories and start bombarding us and put words in our mouths and they grabbed things from the internet and start with the same arguments. I had it on my Christian Journey blog. An American tried to help me reason, and he does know his stuffs, with references and all that, but in the end, he too gave up. But it was a peaceful discussion so it ends well, though there is no conclusion at all.
Yes, I do not read the Bahasa Melayu AlKitab nor The Herald.
Again, just because Indonesia does it, does not mean we should take it as a precedent. Remember, they are human too, and they’ve made mistakes. Like racism and slavery, it was acceptable back then to call a black man ‘Niger’, even in books and newspaper, but today, it is unacceptable. Why? Times change.
The word ‘Allah’ has been so strongly synchronized with the Islamic religion in Malaysia to such an extend where the word ‘Allah’ itself represent their (Muslims) God, no other god but theirs. Therefore it would be better to use the word ‘Tuhan’ instead, not like there isn’t a word for God in Malay, right?
Unless you are releasing a Arabic version of the bible, only then do you use the arabic word for God, which is ‘Allah’.
Just like Christian’s god in Mandarin is widely known as ‘Shang Di’ ?? and not ‘Sheng’ ?, can a Buddhist or Taoist use the word ‘Shang Di’ ?? to refer God? Yes they can, there is no right or wrong, it would be weird right? It’s like referring to the Christian God instead of the Taoist God.
Cheers,
Ngan
p.s. glad to have this healthy debate, hopefully both Christian and Muslim will sort this out in a civilize way. Am neutral.
calvin – Which part of the court case do you not understand? I have repeated many times that the old Bibles in Malaysia, translated in High Malay used Allah. The word Allah is not being simply used. One has to read the Alkitab to understand that Allah is only used when referring to the highest being. There is also the Yahweh name for God. We do not simply peppered it all over the place.
Are you suggesting that we Malaysian Catholics should start to change our Bible? Do you know that great wraths await?
I am confused why you are talking about the Indonesians. Very confused. Who says anything about us following them? I am merely pointing out that Muslims in other countries do not pick on things like these. The Herald has been printing this for many years and it is only recently, just before the political upheavals that some bald minister starts to pick on the issue. It is about the same time when the case of Gan Eng Gor and other cases were rampant.
You are probably misled to believe,that we purposely want to ‘snatch’ the word from others. Like many others, they were mislead that it is a recent happening that we used the word Allah. We have used it for centuries and we never have problem until politicians start to find something to pick so that they can appear to be the champion of some ketuanan. Geddit? This is nothing religious, it is political.
hmm… take a deep breath. Okay, Wikipedia has this to say:
– Allah is the standard Arabic word for ‘God.
– use by Muslims as a reference to God, it is used by Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, in reference to “God”.
– Arab Christians today, having no other word for ‘God’ than Allah,[6] use terms such as All?h al-?Ab ( ???? ????) “God the Father”.
If the bible / print is in Bahasa Malaysia, use Tuhan. If it is in English, use GOD for english, if it is in mandarin, use ‘Shang Di’. if the bible is in arabic, use ‘allah al-ab’
The thing is, there is a WORD for GOD in BM. It is T-U-H-A-N.
– if the malay language does not has one a word for GOD, then use ‘All?h al-?Ab’.
– if the herald is in arabic, use ‘ALLAH’
you don’t mix many different languages and words into a news print or books. do we? yes, the old Bibles in Malaysia, translated in High Malay used Allah. Just because it is printed and translated long long time ago does not make them right.
The argument is, why use the ‘ALLAH’ word when the right word for GOD in Bahasa Malaysia is TUHAN for a Malay print? If mixing different languages is okay, why not just print all the bibles in mandarin, english, tamil using the word ‘Allah’ instead of ‘GOD’ or ‘Shang Di’
ALLAH is an arabic word, use ‘ALLAH’ only in a bible/print in arabic edition, not in a malay edition bible.
I suggest we change our rukun negara to – KEPERCAYAAN KEPADA ALLAH 🙂
okay okay, don argue liao… no point. we both cannot see eye to eye in this. it is best to ask people who are neutral in this (e.g. not christian or muslim) see what they say. friend friend. chop!
Calvin – You are on weeds or something? First, you said you are not a Christian or Muslim. Now, you ask to find someone neutral who is not a Christian or Muslim to talk about this. So what the hell is wrong with you? Do you seriously think I need anyone to kepoh and give me their blardy opinions?
I never ask you to see eye-to-eye to me. I stated it very clearly. Our Bible in BM is handed down from the 16th century. I am not an authority to change anything in there. So, why waste your breath over this issue? It is none of your blardy business, ok? It is between the Kementerian Dalam Negeri under Syed Hamid and the Catholic church. If you are so keen on this issue, go and champion it elsewhere, go write to the editor of Herald. Stop shitting on my comment board.
Comment board open again because some kid is whinning.
If I didn’t know better, I’d thought that Calvin guy is a machai of that syed botak fler! I don’t see anything wrong with the Herald using Allah when referring to God since it’s quoting from the Bible in BM. It’s just a small thing blown out of proportion by politicians. The stupidity of the government knows no bounds… FYI, I’m not practising any religion.
hey lilian, this maybe your blog, but I do hope you stop using hurtful words when replying. Just because ur a mom and 40 and knows how to blog doesn’t mean you can go on bashing people with words such as ‘you’re on weed’ or ‘shitting’.
Don’t do something onto other you won’t do it to yourself, I’m not religious but at least I don’t reply others with words like these, only when I write do I use harsh words because it is targeting anonymous or the public in general, when it comes to personal reply, use proper words. You’re a mother and you should know best! Try it on your own kids, tell them shit, moron, weed… If you have problem with debates then I am sorry. Heck, you’re kids might be reading your blog and you know… like mother like son!
Calvin Ngan´s last blog post..God, Allah, Tuhan and The Catholic Weekly’s Herald Print
calvin –
1) You are a pain in the arse because you keep on arguing with the same point.
2) You are a moron because you already admitted you have never read the AlKitab nor The Herald and yet, you crapped like you know God’s plan.
3) You are an idiot because I have repeatedly said that no one is to change any part of the Bible. You think you are smart with ‘just because it has been done that way, doesn’t means it is right. Dude, you are talking about the Bible, something that we Christians see as sacred. It is not some novel that can be changed just because Syed Hamid suddenly feels threatened.
4) You are just blardy annoying because you keep on with your smart aleck arguments about Arabic and Bahasa Malaysia. Are you a theologian? Are you a scripture expert? Have you spend years to find out how the Bible came to us on earth? Have you spend your life comparing Bibles in every single language it was translated to? Are you an expert in Bahasa Malaysia and know the origin our BM? Which language was it based on? From which language? If not, stop crapping.
5) I can tell you to fuck off anytime but I choose not to because I love getting someone to bite on the skirt for entertainment sake.
6) I purposely deleted your URL because I notice what an attention seeker you are. Grabbing gossips from forums and posting it on your blog is just so lame, ok? From the comments you left on other blogs and sites, I don’t see someone worth arguing with. So that’s why I choose to play with you, for amusement sake.
7) I enjoy having some one to bitch because I have not been obnoxious for too long.
8) So what I am a bad Catholic? Jesus loves the sinners.
If you cannot take the heat, get out of the kitchen. Who ask you to come to a blog that has ample warnings that they can get farked if they don’t play by my rules?
Moron.
Wei Nee – He ah? He thinks it is cool to disagree. Attention seeker like botak jugak lah.
ai yah, what kind of catholic are you? swear? use foul words like fuck, shame on you. Wait till you son read this and learn what is the F word. Good riddance.
Calvin Ngan´s last blog post..God, Allah, Tuhan and The Catholic Weekly’s Herald Print
1) You are a pain in the arse too because you also keep on arguing with the same point.
2) You are a moron too because you crapped like you know God’s plan.
3) Change the bible? It was translated by some guy, am not asking you to change the story, am saying they should use the RIGHT word.
4) I am not a theologian? I am not a scripture expert? Are you? Have you spend years to find out how the Bible came to us on earth? Have you? Have you spend your life comparing Bibles in every single language it was translated to? Have you? Are you an expert in Bahasa Malaysia and know the origin our BM? Are you? Which language was it based on? From which language? If not, stop crapping. Same, stop crapping like you know alot.
5) I can tell you to fuck off anytime but I choose not to because I love getting someone to bite on the skirt for entertainment sake. Me too, but am more civilize, you’re rude.
6) “I purposely deleted your URL because I notice what an attention seeker you are. Grabbing gossips from forums and posting it on your blog is just so lame, ok? From the comments you left on other blogs and sites, I don’t see someone worth arguing with. So that’s why I choose to play with you, for amusement sake.” Ngan says: Sore loser, who need your traffic anyway.
7) I love to bitch too, in a polite way. not like you – RUDE
8) So what I am a bad Catholic? Jesus loves the sinners. Yeah, he loves me too.
p.s. Next time, I want you to tell your children “Thank you Allah for the food on the table.” WALK THE TALK!
Calvin Ngan´s last blog post..God, Allah, Tuhan and The Catholic Weekly’s Herald Print
LOL! Anyway, the Herald is a private publication meaning, for Catholics only. Surely, whatever that is referred there, especially to Allah and Tuhan, are in reference to the God of those who call themselves Catholics.
Why should others be threatened by what a private publication is saying? It would be different if it is a gossip magazine for the general public’s consumption. Then, perhaps, some Muslims might get confused. But here, Muslims in this country have been warned time and again by the authorities not to touch non-Muslim religious stuffs / materials. Surely they would not want to lay their hands on a copy of the Herald, would they? and risk getting confused in the process. The authorities forbid it. If at all, the ones who should be prosecuted would be the Muslims who willingly and knowingly choose to digest non-Muslim religious-based publications contrary against the current prohibitions placed on them.
pablopabla´s last blog post..Ah Chong, Ali and Muthu
@ pablopabla
You’re making sense over here. I agree, its a private publication meant for Catholics, and for the government to ban it is just too much, the gov should advice them, talk to them, reason with the herald in a civilize way instead of using force. Engaged in a healthy debate, let the people decide. Who knows, maybe after a debate and good reasoning by the Herald, muslims might agree with them. The key to this problem is open debate.
how old are you chan lillian? I got to say, you sure are childish. The words you use, the way you reply, how to change people’s nick and so on. Sometimes I wonder, are you for real or some kid pretending to be a lady.
If indeed you are 40, I respect your ability in absorbing all these computer knowledge, some of my peers don’t even know basic computing, not many senior citizen are as good as you on computers. Respect.
Be polite, reply comments constructively and with polite words. If you can’t, then don’t drag Catholicism with you by associating it with you while using foul, bad and impolite words defending what you think is right. I know this is your blog, hope you son reads this, hope you church peers read your replies, hope your prist/father reads this.
I am having red beans ice blended at coffee beans after shopping. I no free fark you yet. Wait i go home first. You go watch some porn first. You need to get a life you know?
Calvin, who are you?
According to yourself, you’re “not a Christian, not Muslim”, and “therefore am giving a neutral point of view”. Looks like you are not. You are, from your first reply, very against Catholics using Allah. And you are not even tabling both sides of view. And you call yourself neutral. What a hypocrite!!
Just to enlighten you. I am from Perak, and I have been using the word “Allah” every week for 11 years, because I have to sing the Perak state anthem for every assembly. The anthem begins with “Dilanjutkan Allah usianya Sultan”.
So, what is the problem using Allah? Should non-Muslin residents from Perak banned from singing Perak anthem? What an irony!!!
C’mon, Calvin, it is a political problem. And, if you want to argue that we Catholics cannot borrow one word Allah from Arab, then you go approach language experts and ban ALL usage of borrowed words. And now you went overboard by walking into people’s house, light a fire, and now you call the owner of the house childish? Leave before we sue you for arson!!
Lilian – I guess you need to display your family’s sign of peace (the one that’s trained from young – you know which one I mean right?). Since it was mentioned about your sons reading your blog.
ROTFLMHO
Let me kautim this Calvin mou Ngan Tai (cantonese means no eye see) sinn……
1) Calvin Ngan keng (Cantonese means stubborn), Tell me which part of my post is offensive to anyone? I only get offensive with morons, idiots and airheads. So, the problem is not my post, but your attitude.
2) Don’t worry, my blog is read by a couple of priests. And they know my language is flowery. It is fine because only hypocrites like you go around all sweet and well-mannered because you don’t see your own rotten self.
3) My sons and their friends all read my blog and it is a good thing you came by so that they can see what morons are. *Anak-anak sekalian….bila sudah besar, ingat jangan jadi macam Abang Calvin, ok?* :rotfl:
4) Where did I drag my religion to defend myself? I merely quoted what is happening here in Malaysia. You are the one who dragged my children, my priests, Father Lawrence (to quote you, you said he is the one who politicise the issue, not Syed Hamid), my God into this argument.
5) FYI, I don’t need to use the word Allah with my children because we have Jesus as our Big Brother. So, we do need to use any bigger Big Boss reference as we are unworthy to call on Allah all the time. We have Jesus our Saviour.
6) By asking us to change the Bible, you are insulting the faith. Since you already said you do not know about our faith, you are merely crapping. So, I have every right to pthooi you as I like because you are the one who come to my blog to shit.
7) You are probably molly-coddled and you think we live in an ideal world where Government has dialogue and solve problems like you little kid thinks. If that is the case, there is no court case in the first place. Grow up, boy. (re : Comment #20)
8) Don’t you dare to talk like you know the issue well. What do you mean by saying what you said in Comment #20 where you implied that we have to explain for other faiths to accept us? Kid, grow up. Go learn some history first. We are not fighting for anything. We are not infringing into anyone’s territory. We are merely asking to remain status quo in using what we have used for centuries. We are not subject to anyone’s approval of how we worship.
9) Learn your politics too. You know nothing so you better shaddap. Just a couple of weeks ago, they banned The Herald from printing the Bahasa Malaysia version. Few weeks later, they approved. Then, they twisted their words that they never say to us to stop printing BM version and The Star was used to twist the matter, making it like we are the stubborn and foolish ones.
10) I may be rude and I may curse but I believe my sentiments reflect a lot of other people too. So what I fark you? I am taking the burdens upon me to tell you and the rest of the people who are interested that this is the work of the paranoid Syed Hamid Albar. Actually, I must thank you because what I said also directs to him as well. None of us Catholics have ever infringed into any situation, The Herald is our private circulation. It is the KDN who throws their weight around, making like we are the culprits. It is politicians like Khir Toyo and botak who incite uneasiness like it is a religious matter.
Amen.
David C – Actually I am thankful for a kambing korban to say what I have wanted to say for a long time. I just read that people are getting more paranoid and is trying to fool people that we have malice. Read on Msiakini.
lilian
at least in your reply to me, i did understand that christians do acknowledge Allah as the only god, so keep on using the word Allah.
thank you and may Allah bless all of us
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yada yada yada, call me name, childish… walk the talk my lady. Use the ‘ALLAH’ word in your daily prayers instead of GOD. Use it, don’t be a hypocrite.
Oh Calvin – I just heard your mama calling you! It is past your bedtime.
God teaches us to forgive and forget, he teaches us to use polite words, he teaches us to be polite. Well, good luck to you Lilian on your wonderful journey. May God Bles…. wait, I mean, May Allah Bless You!
Remember, use the ‘Allah’ word in your daily prayers. Walk the Talk, God hates hypocrite.
@ David C.
I did not say we cannot borrow the ‘Allah’ word, just stressing that we should use the right word for the right language, which is Tuhan for Bahasa Malaysia. If the print in the Herald is in Arabic, then use the ‘Allah’ word. Don’t you get it? Ur mixing arabic word with BM for what? Why not just mix BM with English?
The arabic christian bibles uses ‘Allah’ for God, I think that is right. To ban the Herald because of this? I am against it, to stop them from releasing a BM version of the bible, I am against this. Its time to have some opinion. Like I said, from today onwards, you should substitute the GOD word for ALLAH, walk the talk my friends.
Calvin,
Wanna preach, go to the proper place or bloody start your own religion lah.
If you are sooooo righteous, start a blog yourself and preach.
Does it actually matters what ppl use to call God? As long as the faith is strong, it doesnt really matters.
Some even refers HIM as father. So by calling your own daddy, Father, is it degrading HIM or your own father? wtf!
Calvin – You know what’s the first commandment? You have broken that in every single one of your comment, you know? Don’t believe? Go ask Moses. I don’t mean Moses Chan.
Ok, people, I go breakfast, marketing, have a life. Enjoy listening to the preaching from Calvin Ngan teng teng.
No, he doesn’t know, because he’s not a Christian nor a Muslim. Lilian, I admire your breath – I already no breath to say liao. Some people just wanna argue for the sake of arguing.
Btw, the using of God’s name in vain is 2nd commandment. 🙂
David – Kehkehkeh, ya hor? The first one is thou shall have no other god before me (God).
I never meet anyone so stubborn ngan keng like this one, so I test my patience lor.
Oi Terence! Why you so late to come into this comment thread ah? #32 only lah! LOL!
pablopabla´s last blog post..Ah Chong, Ali and Muthu
@terence – good, you’re right, it doesn’t matter what we refer him as, therefore you ought to walk the talk. call him ‘ALLAH’ in your daily prayers, teach your children to call him that too, after all, it doesn’t matter how we address him right, does it? No need to say, just do it, if you can’t, then you ought to think twice. DO IT! DO IT!
@ David C. and Lillian – Sorry for my limited knowledge in Christianity, but what we’re discussing here is not about Christianity but the use of the word ‘Allah’. Its a language issue. If you guys still don get it, please use the right WORD for the RIGHT language. Having said that, if the Herald has a section in Arabic, then refer him as ‘ALLAH’, if they are printing out an arabic version of the christian bible, then use ‘ALLAH’, if it is in BM, then use ‘TUHAN’. I am not against the use of ‘Allah’ in a Christian context, I repeat, I believe the word ‘ALLAH’ can be used in a Christian article if it is written in the Arabic Language. USE THE RIGHT WORD FOR THE RIGHT LANGUAGE! Don’t Rojak it.
@All – It doesn’t matter what religion I am, maybe I don’t even have one, maybe I pray to many gods. At least I don’t reply peoples’ comments in such a harsh way, rude and arrogant (just because you know how to blog and make money from it) and name callings. Perhaps that is why you attended Church every week, I can’t imagine you being yourself without enlightenment, I don’t need enlightenment to guide me.
The argument I heard from the Christian camp is that it had been used for many many years, some malay chap translated it using that ‘allah’ word, and it is widely used in Indonesia. Therefore why we can’t use it now and what is wrong with it. Well, so is NEP, it has been implemented for many many years, what is wrong with it? it is the norm now. Because it was acceptable to call a blackman ‘nigger’ 200 years ago, does not mean we can call a black man ‘Niger’ now. Time is not a factor in determining the validity of a context.
p.s. Just for your info, I am more anti-islam than anti-christian. You guys need to take a step back and look at this issue from a neutral point of view, from an outside point of view. Muslims, Christian and Jews can’t see eye to eye on many issues because nobody is willing to look at the entire situation from a different sets of lens. I suggest you take a deep breath. Relax. You guys are all ‘heated’ up. The world is in a mess thanks to all three of them, look around you, today’s war revolved around three religions, which religion?
P.S. Hey Lilian, tell your kids not to play firecracks, this year economy so bad liao, later boom boom here, bang bang here, scare away the God of Prosperity. Anyway, God teaches you guys to be calm and polite, therefore, please remain calm and watch your words. Happy Chinese New Year. Gong Xi Fa Chai!
– the end, don’t argue liao, go and find enlightenment –
Hey guys, am pretty bored with this debate liao. I don see an end, after all, this is not my fight. I Enjoyed exchanging opinions, I do hope this issue gets resolved ASAP without any unwanted incident. Hope you guys all the best, and if I said something hurtful, or hurt your feeling in any way, I would like to take this opportunity to say I am sorry. Happy Chinese New Year.
Cheers,
Ngan
Calvin Ngan´s last blog post..Wedding at YTL Pangkor Laut Beach Resort, Malaysia
Pablo, some of us have to work you know. LOL.
Calvin, Bye bye. Happy CNY to you too.
Calvin,
Since u said that its a matter of the malay language n arabic language den why dont the blardy home minister cari pasal with the sultan of perak? when i was in school we have to sing the perak state song dat goes … dilanjutkan allah usia sultan …. a few times allah is mentioned in the whole song so here its Bahasa Malaysia and arabic allah is ok n the Herald kenot? If so to say that they say that non muslims cant use then baiki the perak song 1st before jumping on the herald!
Allah is a specific name. A pronoun. The name of God in Islam is Allah. It is not the word to mean ‘God’ or ‘Tuhan’. It is a name. The Arabic word for God or Tuhan is ‘Lah’. Not Allah.So, Allah is the name of the only God, not to be associated with other man-made ‘gods’.
That is the reason why in the Qur’an there is such a phrase as LaaiLAHa il ALLAH meaning There is no God (no lah) except ALLAH. And as stated in the verse of surah Al_Ikhlas in the Holey Qur’an:
Qul huAllah hu ahad
Allahussamad,
Lam yalid, walam yuu lad
meaning:
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.
So, if other than Muslims want to use the name Allah, they must attest or agree or believe that Allah is the name of The God (for want of a better word which means the Creator)who is unseen, does beget or be begotten and does not need to be transformed into human form, for example Jesus (peace be upon him)..and that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the final messenger of Allah.
So, why go to all that hassle if there is no other agenda or motive?..Why not just stick to God since that was and is what Catholics have been using in this country all this while?
Sorry I need to resend the comment as there were some typo errors..
Allah is a specific name. A pronoun. The name of God in Islam is Allah. It is not the word to mean ‘God’ or ‘Tuhan’. It is a name. The Arabic word for God or Tuhan is ‘Lah’. Not Allah.So, Allah is the name of the only God, not to be associated with other man-made ‘gods’.
That is the reason why in the Qur’an there is such a phrase as LaaiLAHa il ALLAH meaning There is no God (no lah) except ALLAH. And as stated in the verse of surah Al_Ikhlas in the Holy Qur’an:
Qul huAllah hu ahad
Allahussamad,
Lam yalid, walam yuu lad
meaning:
Say: He is Allah, the One and Only! Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him.
So, if other than Muslims want to use the name Allah, they must attest or agree or believe that Allah is the name of The God (for want of a better word which means the Creator)who is unseen, does not beget or be begotten and does not need to be transformed into human form, for example Jesus (peace be upon him)..and that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the final messenger of Allah.
So, why go through all that hassle if there is no other agenda or motive?..Why not just stick to God since that was and is what Catholics have been using in this country all this while? or just Tuhan, if they still need to use a Malay word?
Sam – Where did you get the idea of, to quote you, “Why not just stick to God since that was and is what Catholics have been using in this country all this while?”?
Catholics who use Bahasa Malaysia in their worship, refers to God as Allah, Tuhan and Bapa. It is in the AlKitab. Allah had been, was, is and will be in the AlKitab. So, don’t let those people out there confused you lah. This is not a new occurence. We didn’t suddenly wake up one morning and decided to change our God’s name lah.
“As Christians, we do not incite hate because our faith is centered on LOVE. Love in Christian term, is not the ‘I love you, you love me’ kind of love. Love is God. Love to us means being able to put others above of our own needs.”
Lilian, you should read what you wrote. What you are doing is inciting hate.
True, the old Malay books used ‘Allah’. But the point is the Herald. We can’t change the old books; but the Herald is printed in a different context – a different time and place. And in this time and place, ‘Allah’ has almost become synonymous with Islam — just ask the American Christians or the Filipino Christians. We cannot use the Sikh excuse (i.e. that they use Allah and other terms similar to Muslims because — as far as I know and I could be wrong on this one — they do not have publications in Malay).
We can’t change the old literature but we have full control over what comes out in the Herald.
Yes, I agree that everyone has a right and freedom. The Herald or anyone else for that matter should have freedom of the press, expression, etc. But what we are forgetting nowadays is that with freedom/right comes responsibility. Is it really responsible for the Herald to act in a way which can be construed as a provocation of Muslims in Malaysia?
If the Herald simply used ‘Tuhan’ instead of ‘Allah’, we would not be where we are now. Now look what happened. Christians are allowed to use ‘Allah’ with the condition that a big ‘For Christians Only’ should be printed in every publication containing ‘Allah’. It has made everything difficult. Not only that, the religious tension has increased — like it or not. And I do not know what happens after the court case.
This is the reason why Jesus said that if someone slaps your cheek, give the other cheek. Christians should have taken the moral high ground on this one. If others can’t be responsible, then Christians should be.
Now everyone’s in a mess.
bdc – Cerita lapuk dah….gimme some fresh vegetables lah. Yawnnnnnn.
“Catholics who use Bahasa Malaysia in their worship, refers to God as Allah, Tuhan and Bapa. It is in the AlKitab. Allah had been, was, is and will be in the AlKitab. So, don’t let those people out there confused you lah. This is not a new occurence. We didn’t suddenly wake up one morning and decided to change our God’s name lah.” – Lilian
My comment: Allah is not a Bahasa Malaysia word. Nobody is stopping you from using Tuhan or Bapa. Y use Allah?..Y don’t u sue Yawyeh (Jewish for God) or Jehovah? We don’t.
My comment: Allah is not a Bahasa Malaysia word. Nobody is stopping you from using Tuhan or Bapa. Y use Allah?..Y don’t u USE Yawyeh (Jewish for God) or Jehovah? We don’t.
After all the bible is full of Jewish connotations.
Or…to be more specific to the Roman Catholics, y don’t u sue the Roman or Latin word?…you are closer to them I think…even closer than Jesus (peace be upon him) ever was to them.
USE, mistyped as SUE..sorry (not asking u to sue them, counter-productive..heheh)
and Lilian, reading at your commentary about the Indonesians, I think that is where the word is used or permitted to be used for political/nationalistic reasons. Its funny that Indonesians allow the name Allah to be used by anyone of any religion, while names of Indonesian citizens have to be registered in the Indonesian language.
In Malaysia,names of Muslims are usually (not compulsory) in the Arabic language, to rever the prophets and for Islamic sentimental reasons. There r also names in BM, like Melor, Putih, Hitam, Ngah, Kencana etc etc…
Since you are so keen in using the name Allah for God, would u be as willing to use Arabic names for your names?..like the Arab Christians? Would you change your name from Lilian to Khadijah bt whatever?…since your argument is based on the linguistics?
Muslims should defend the name Allah as the name which has been cleansed off its polygemous connotations, as practised by certain quarters there, before the coming of Islam. Thus the Qur’an, as inspired through the holy prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)stressed that Allah is the name of the God in Unity. The One and only. The name of the Creator of all, who does not beget or be begotten. So, if the name is is used for attributes that contradict those core attributes, then it is not Allah.
Now, if Muslims in other countries are not doing so, it does not mean that Muslims in Malaysia have to follow suit. Our stand is clear not blurred by nationalistic/political excuses.
“Catholics who use Bahasa Malaysia in their worship, refers to God as Allah, Tuhan and Bapa. It is in the AlKitab. Allah had been, was, is and will be in the AlKitab.” – Lilian
Comment: Its also about time you reprint all the copies of all ‘AlKitab’ (even its name needs to bechanged, since it is not BM ..it is Arabic, meaning ‘The Book’). Change the name to BM.. Buku or Buku Suci since u believe it is suci to u, or something. and Tkae out the word Allah. It is also not BM. Don’t confuse the Christians in this country.